“rather than those who engage on a surface level, I want to collate as much of a fanbase that is concerned with the actual content of my music as possible.” bo en interview

Bo en is an artist living in London who's career started through participating in the fogpak #6 compilation in 2013 and subsequently releasing his debut album through Maltine Records in September of that year. From writing and producing a track for yun*chi's Wonderful Wonder World* EP last year to collaborating with japanese artists like Avec Avec and COR!S on his album Pale Machine, bo en's connection with Japan is strong. Born and bred in England, we will find out why he is so charmed with Japan. We will also explore the hidden motives beneath the surface of his cute and colourful sound... After his arrival in Japan which saw him playing many shows including in Osaka, we catch up with bo en.

Interview

Interviewer: Takazumi Hosaka
Interpreter: Tsukasa Tanimoto
Photo: Spincoaster

As bo en, you've been to Japan three times. Are you enjoying it?

Every time I come, I'm half working and half holidaying but this time I went to see cherry blossoms! (Laughs)

So, we know that you're into japan but what kickstarted your interest in the first place?

Games and game music from my childhood definitely played a big part. There's a game called Katamari Damashii that I was really into. Through that I began to develop an interest in Japan itself and Japanese music.

So through games you began to develop an interest in japan from a young age. Did you have friends that you could share that kind of interest with?

My friends weren't as into it as I was. However, no doubt there were people who held the same level or even more of an intense fascination with Japan than I. Recently, there've been a lot of musicians who profess a love for Yasutaka'y J-pop. Not from England but people like Ryan Hemsworth, Spazzkid, Porter Robinson etc.

When you heard about these kind of musicians, how did you feel?

To be honest, I'd only really made contact with them by the time I had already released pale machine, so I was viewing them less from the perspective of fellow Westerners that were into Japanese music but perhaps already from the perspective of trying to embed myself into the Japanese music industry. That's why I wasn't especially surprised or taken aback that there were others who were into Japanese music. I don't want to claim too much about being more authentically engaged with Japan but I felt that there was a slight distance between my activities and the activities of those that took influence from Japanese music but were still operating primarily in the West.

That's right. By the way, your Japanese is really good! How did you learn?

Since I was 18, I'd been teaching myself on-and-off. Like, I'd meet up with Japanese people that wanted to learn English in a cafe or something and we'd teach each other. Recently, My girlfriend and mum both bought me a term of Japanese lessons at SOAS for my birthday. It really made me realise how inefficiently I had been learning on my own! (laughs)

So, you studied music at University. I read in your Yes/No Music interview that your decision to study music was largely influenced by your friends. Are you still close with those friends you spoke of? Also, is there a connection between the music you all were making and liked back then and your current work as bo en?

Definitely! They're really good friends of mine so we're still close. They were my friendship group since we were all teenagers so I think we shared pretty similar taste in music! However, I was the only one who was especially into game music and Japanese music. I formed loads of bands in different styles with that group of friends – metal, electronic, lounge, jazz. I think some of that has had a quite clear impact on the music I currently make. Sometime I really want to play live shows with a big live band. When that materialises I definitely want to ask these guys to play with me again!

Did you ever feel kind of lonely that you were the only one into game and Japanese music?

No, not at all. When I was young I was very happy to be the listening to stuff I liked, even if I was the only one of my friends. I don't think it was particularly an essential part of my identity so I didn't really feel personally affected by it.

You've said you were really inspired by “Shibuya-kei”. Who were the first artists you listened to?

It was definitely through Last.fm, following the automatic function that suggests songs that you might like, I found Cymbals. That was how I encountered Shibuya-kei.

Since I started studying Jazz at school, I became really interested in music that had elements of Jazz. The game music I was into was invariably also influenced by jazz and fused it with a distinctly Japanese sensibility. That's exactly the same kind of combination with Shibuya-kei – a combination of jazz and j-pop sensibilities. Perhaps this is just my idea but, because Shibuya-kei is so fast paced and rapidly shifts between different contrasting sections in its structure, I kinda wanted to call it “extreme pop”! A group like Plus-Tech Squeeze Box for example. I wanted to copy the kind of things they were doing. I think people who know Shibuya-kei well will understand this kind of feeling from my music.

Do you have much of an interest in pop from your own country?

Hmm... I'm sure I do but now that I try to think about it, nothing comes to mind! (laughs)

Perhaps I'm more into American pop than stuff from England. Well, actually I really love Latin music. I'm not sure why but it seems like pop from the UK takes less influence from Jazz than stuff from America. That might be why I don't feel as enthusiastic about British pop.

From the interview you did with Yes, Yes, Young, you mentioned that you had a playlist on your iTunes called “perfect pop disco chords”. What was the most recent thing you put into this playlist?

Hahaha! You researched well! Hmm, I can't really remember! I don't think I've put anything in it in the last year or so! I make a lot of playlists that I don't really keep under control! (laughs)

To me, the sound you make has a stronger feeling of “cute” than “cool”. From a young age, have you always liked cute things?

Ah, yeah definitely! When I was young I had a big collection of cuddly toys (including cuddly aliens)! (laughs) As for music though, I think “cute”ness is often the result of trying to make something fun. Because I aim towards making something fun, it can come across as “cute”. I'm kind of not at all concerned with expressing “kawaii”ness or “cute”ness in my music but, because I'm kind of opposed to music that takes itself very seriously, the result is often seen as “cute”.

Well then, if you have this kind of serious music on the one hand, what is the motive behind the fun'ness in your music?

Right now there are various types of artists around but I have the feeling that there are many who give out an incredibly serious image whilst having very little to offer in the way of musical content. The kind of music I'm most keen to listen to is that which condenses as much musical content into as little space as possible. I think the impression of fun'ness or cute'ness in my music comes from the fact that I am very up-front and display my content in an easy to understand way. I think my affinity with Japanese music is led by the same sort of reasoning. Generally, I get the feeling that what underlies American music is minimalism and what underlies a lot of Japanese music is maximalism.

In your pitchfork interview, the interviewer said that “Pale Machine, has the bright, supersaturated atmosphere of a Michel Gondry movie”. How do you feel about that?

Um, truth is I've never seen a Michel Gondry film, I don't think. My girlfriend is a big fan though. (laughs!)

~for some time, his girlfriend gives an explanation about Michel Gondry films~

I'm not really sure but it seems interesting. (laughs)

Well then, let's leave Michel Gondry to the side, do you ever get inspiration from other films, animation or imagery?

I don't think I really get much direct influence from visuals. I don't really watch films and I kind of consider musical language and visual language in very separate ways so don't see how I can channel visual inspiration into a musical sphere in any meaningful way. Maybe I was influenced a little by video games but not especially.

Personally, when I listen to your music it brings up all sorts of images in my head so your response is a little unexpected!

Maybe I'm a blank canvas! Of course, unconsciously I'll be affected by many things but my intentions are kind of bereft of imagery!

Because you're write it as a blank canvas, the listener might be open to many different kinds of images, right?

Yeah, I think so. However, because I can't define my work visually, I find the process of making a music video incredibly hard! (laughs)

Just the other day, a video called “UGUISU” (a video tour around Tokyo) made by Takuya Hosogane and Shinsuke Sugiyama which used your song “miss you” was released.

Yeah, it was a really lovely video, those guys are really great! But when I think of what kind of video I'd want as an official music video, it's probably a little different from that. I'm not really sure what kind of video is best for me! I think my ideal vision is a ridiculously high hurdle to jump. Until I could find someone with a lot of skill who I could completely trust, I won't make an official music video.

Let's return to musical content again. You incorporate sounds and minuscule details from genres that have become very popular on the net like Juke, Jersey Club or even Trap and Wavey. What do you think about these trends?

As a kind of musical ideology, I want people to focus on the fundamental content of my music and so I constantly shift the surface style. I'm struck that people often make value judgements based on style like “oh, it's this kind of music” they gauge whether they like it within like 10 seconds of a track. So I shift around within one song to a lot of different styles including the ones you mentioned like Juke and Jersey Club as well as Bossa Nova and Jazz forms because I don't want the listener to be able to rely on their stylistic judgements. To use an analogy, do you know the tablecloth trick? That kind of thing! You quickly tug the tablecloth off leaving the plates sitting on top where they were but now without any tablecloth underneath. In this analogy, the tablecloth is “style” and the plates are “musical content”. I pull off many tablecloths but the plates still remain. So, to come back to your question, whilst I like all of these styles, my favour for them only really extends to considering them as surface-level components in music-making. Maybe it's just like saying “this is a nice tablecloth”.

Nowadays, with the development of the net, listeners can listen to huge quantities of music everyday. Because of that, recently many trackmakers in Japan follow the rule that you need to catch the attention of a listener within the first 5-10 seconds. What do you think about this?

I think the balance between accessibility and complexity is essential to grab and keep people's attention from the first few seconds until the end of the song. “Catchiness” is often used as justification in pop music criticism and can be defined as “ease of understanding” but I feel that it's very easy to make a song which may be catchy but doesn't offer anything upon repeat listens and conversely, something that's very complex and unpredictable but not at all enjoyable. That's why it's my most important concern and a personal challenge to foster the co-existence of accessibility and complexity. Come to think of it, I'm sure I adopted this value-system through listening to Shibuya-kei!

That reminds me, you played at an event in London alongside many artists from and related to Maltine in March called “poko”, didn't you! In London are there other events like this?

Not at all. Events related to Japan in London are all kind of “Otaku” or Cosplay-themed really, nothing but Hyper Japan-type events.

At “poko” you played alongside Augustus from Kero Kero bonito who you collaborated with on Pale Machine. When did you start talking with him?

Before I started bo en, it might have been about 3 years ago? Around then, I'd heard of Kero Kero Bonito online. After that I found out that Gus (Augustus) lived in the same area of South London as me so we quickly became friends. A little while ago when I was living in a kind of warehouse squat place, Sarah from KKB rented out a space there to do painting for a few months.

In London, there is also the label/community PC Music who have some connection to Kero Kero Bonito. Do you feel an affinity with them?

I think KKB, PC Music and I all share a similar musical ideology and because of that I definitely feel an affinity to the stuff they all make. Each person's sound is different but a kind of “experimental pop music” approach is one big similarity between us, I think.

That kind of scene is really hyped up online at the moment, do you think it will give birth to a real life scene?

I don't really attend that many events but the JACK댄스 parties are a kind of bridge between a lot of the stuff going on at the moment in London. So I think from there something may develop into a scene.

As “bo en”, what are your plans for the future?

I've started my new album but it's not very far along. Right now I'm mostly trying to decide whether I'm going to release it independently or, if not, who to release with. What I can say now is that when people who know my music listen to it, it may not be what they'd previously understood as typical “bo en” music. There aren't any drops and it's not really dance music. I'm also slightly moving away from the “cute”, very japan-centric sound that had characterised my previous stuff. Up until now, I've made many efforts to accumulate as many fans who are interested in the stuff I make in more than a surface-level kind of way but I still have the feeling that pale machine era stuff can easily be pigeon-holed or reduced to a kind of “kawaii EDM” which doesn't reflect my values within music-making. That's why, I kind of want to keep shifting and pulling that tablecloth, not just within the songs themselves but from album to album in order to get as many people who'll stick around for what I'm putting out regardless of style.